LiveSmart BC

The next stage of our conversation on the proposed Water Sustainability Act starts today

New to the Water Act Modernization Discussion? Click here for background

On December 17, we released the Policy Proposal on British Columbia’s new Water Sustainability Act on the Living Water Smart Blog.  The paper summarizes the key policies we’re proposing  and the overall direction we’re heading.  Thanks for your great response so far! 

Starting tomorrow we’ll get into the proposed new Water Sustainability Act in greater detail. As we post more information on the Blog, we’ll ask you to pose your questions and share your comments on the proposed Act directly to the Blog.

During the next five weeks we’ll also be inviting you to rank the comments and questions that other British Columbians pose on the Blog. 

While emails, letters and faxes are fine too, we really encourage you to share your comments and questions through the Blog. Having the conversation on the Blog allows others to build on your ideas. It also allows you to view and rank other British Columbians’ comments and questions, which will help us better understand what’s important to you as we move forward with the WSA.  This question and comment period will be open until February 21.

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96 comments to The next stage of our conversation on the proposed Water Sustainability Act starts today

  • Jillian

    The bottom line is that in 10, 20, 30+ years from, I want all residents of British Columbia to have access to clean, healthy water systems and the infinite number of values they bring.
    Do not make any decisions that are irreversible.
    Do not sell permanent water rights.
    Do not abdicate your responsibility for managing the world’s most precious resource.
    Do not allow private profit incentive to trump the basic water needs of societies, economies and environments.
    Allow for small-scale and diverse water use, and avoid creating a system that caters only to the large and powerful
    Plan for long-term sustainability
    Guard the right of residents to clean, healthy drinking water for their daily needs as the highest priority

  • stephane perron

    I agree with Andre comment; “Leaving water rights up to market forces is a complete abdication of the most important but at times admittedly difficult role of governance. Allocation of use of the COMMONS is the central and ongoing role of government. However it must remain part of the COMMONS. Any region may need water allocation flexibility in the future particularly given the high inaccuracy of using modeling with respect to predicting the effects of Climate Change. The most crucial effects are in fact predicted to be on hydrology. Of all times in modern history this is not the time to give away this responsibility.

    The common good must be considered and the right to allocate on this basis must be maintained over and above ANY OTHER RIGHT. Water for the vital requirements of human consumption, growing food and to a slightly less vital degree capturing energy, to meet local/regional needs, must be ENSHRINED as the top priority in any new act. Furthermore, the freedom to enjoy the rights of property may become moot and the ability to judge the value of any real property severely compromised. “

  • Robert CH Harvey

    The time is now to legislate water, however it must always be the peoples water and never get to be the Corporations Water! We all share and own this resource lets keep it that way, not sell it off so the elite can wheel & deal them selves the good life at the expense of the majority as is so typical in the world today. All benefit should be the Province’s not Private Interests , we need to monitor and evaluate our resource and work on truly sustainable usage, protecting it from contamination and waste.You can live a while with out food, water, that’s another story. Let us not throw away the public interest. Act now to keep our resources safe, not sold.

  • Janis Magnuson

    I completely disagree with the idea of privatizing water rights!!!

    Water, just like air, should be maintained for the benefit of all, as a community resource.

    We residents need the government to be a good steward and trustee of all of our natural resources and ensure their sustainability.

    Not everything is a commodity to be bought and sold.

    • LWSEditor

      Janis, we appreciate your comments and we want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Mike Brewster

    To all of you who say that we can never get back the statuse our water now enjoys I say this; the first duty of government is to protect the citizens it represents. If its’ actions, either by omission or commission,cause material harm to said citizens then those actions are ultravires. Any banker who claims to do ‘due diligence’on behalf of investors knows this. Citizens groups may reinforce this by stating publicly that as prospective legislators they reserve the right to reclaim the common good. This is why BC run of river schemes all have a 35 year term. In that case the business case for the province is so bad that its’inconcievable a court challange would survive.

  • Rose Weaver

    I am not in support of water markets. The prov. gov’t job is to look after a resource and maintaining it for the public good, UN declared it a human right. We need to look after it for the sustainable longterm future.

  • Sylvain Turgeon

    The Water Modernization Act must be designed around the lessons learned internationally. Every single time, everywhere on the planet, water management responsability transfer to the Private Sector has been a disaster – both for human’s needs and for the environment. The Private Sector obeys laws that have no equivalent in the natural, biological order and it seems obvious to me that they cannot take any responsability towards managing such a COMMON resource. I ask the Government to act responsively and block all intrusion of the Private Sector into water management/exporting/pricing. etc.
    It’s a matter of the upmost importance.

  • K Needham

    I have serious concerns that “modernization” of the Water Act is really the start of privatization of BC’s water. Water is a human right, not a commodity to be traded to the highest bidder.

    • LWSEditor

      Thank you for sharing your concerns. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Food For The Future

    This Act has nothing to do with sustainability but making it easier for Corporations to take control of our most precious resource. If communities want to consider changing policies for utility use it is up to them and their residents to decide. Provincial laws or act are only going to deepen the troubles in each region. This is not an modernization but a straight forward sell off of our right to keep fresh clean water for all B.C.

    • LWSEditor

      Thank you for your comments. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Jeff Nimmo

    The policy document seems entirely concerned about regulating use. An Act called a Water Sustainability Act should include a very clear stance about water being kept in the public trust.
    We do need to have clear regulations on use, but at the end of the day, rights to water resources have to always be kept by us, the province.
    If anything, some of the vague policy statements like establishing water markets seem to indicate that the Act will be going in the opposite direction.

  • Andre Piver MD/Future of Food in the Kootenay

    addendum to my last comment: to quote your own headline: “Water makes life on earth possible”. The ongoing responsibility for allocation cannot be abdicated by those who govern.

  • Andre Piver MD/Future of Food in the Kootenay

    Leaving water rights up to market forces is a complete abdication of the most important but at times admittedly difficult role of governance. Allocation of use of the COMMONS is the central and ongoing role of government. However it must remain part of the COMMONS. Any region may need water allocation flexibility in the future particularly given the high inaccuracy of using modeling with respect to predicting the effects of Climate Change. The most crucial effects are in fact predicted to be on hydrology. Of all times in modern history this is not the time to give away this responsibility.

    The common good must be considered and the right to allocate on this basis must be maintained over and above ANY OTHER RIGHT. Water for the vital requirements of human consumption, growing food and to a slightly less vital degree capturing energy, to meet local/regional needs, must be ENSHRINED as the top priority in any new act. Furthermore, the freedom to enjoy the rights of property may become moot and the ability to judge the value of any real property severely compromised.

  • Mark Vaughan

    I am writing in opposition to the proposed Water Sustainability Act.

    I am opposed to private ownership or leasing of water rights. Water is a human right and will not always be the abundant resource that it is today. That is why water must be kept in public hands for the people of this province.

    In the interest of present and future generations, let’s keep our water in the hands of the people. If the government enacts this proposal it will privatize water in a way that becomes effectively irreversible. Corporations will benefit and citizens will not.

    Water is undeniably part of our ‘common wealth’. This does not belong to the government to sell, nor our current generation, but we must protect it and make sure it is available and unencumbered for future generations. This is the moral and legal obligation of the government and the public.

  • R. Wong

    I am opposed to the privatization of water. If the licence to use a public resource is converted into a tradable economic right, that is held and may be sold, this will predictably benefit the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

    • LWSEditor

      We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. We appreciate you taking the time to comment. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Ginger Gosnell-Myers

    In no way is this a good idea. It amounts to privatizing our most precious resource – our water. BC Government – our water is not for sale. This resource belongs to our future generations, and not to the highest bidder.

  • Betty McGee

    I am vehemently opposed to the Water Act Modernization as I see it as yet another opportunity for our natural resources to be sold to the highest bidder.

    • LWSEditor

      Betty, thank you for your comment. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Rand Chatterjee, Village Vancouver

    Why must every natural resource in BC become a tradable commodity? Without laws to protect resources, whose “ownership” if anything is to the First Nations, merchandizing water will be a failed experiment in the conversion of the commons. Start with clear protections for the environment, First Nations, and the public interest, and only then do markets succeed in improving allocation. This “policy proposal” must be sent back to a bipartisan panel with clear representation of ecological interests.

  • susan croskery

    The public right to water is not protected in this document, the potential for corporate exp[oitation is immense, and irreversible. Not good enough, and a crime against the people of BC

  • Jaynie Starr

    I am dismayed by the direction the Water Sustainability Act is taking. I agree with all those who advocate for water as a sacred trust and a human right. I totally disagree with privatizing any part of our water resources .

    • LWSEditor

      Thank you for your sharing your concerns, Jaynie. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Anne Grube

    The policies may all look good, but the “proof will be in the pudding”–when the legislation is actually drafted. What options will the public have for comment at that stage before the draft goes to the legislature?

    I’m mystified by the references to “stakeholders, First Nations, and the public”–aren’t we all stakeholders? If not, who are these stakeholders?

    There is no mention of the July, 2010 United Nations Assembly decision that water is a human right. This should be recognized first and foremost in any policy regarding water. I realize that we have no national strategy to address water issues and no federal leadership to conserve and protect our water, but perhaps the province of BC can show the wayfor Canada.

    The reliance on “voluntary efficiency and conservation measures” and reporting and monitoring to be done by users disturbs me–for small farmers, this will just add to their paperwork load, and for large industrial users, provide opportunities to fudge the statistics.

    Too many of the suggested accountability strategies seem to remain under Provincial jurisdiction (and the Province would receive the fees) although it seems local and regional governments will have to try to manage and enforce regulations…

    I see no mention of one of the biggest concerns–the deterioration of water quality caused by the process of fracking–how will this be addressed?

    The notion of tradable permits and water markets concerns me.

  • Julia Valenti-citizen

    I weep for my grandwhildren and the world they are inheriting–this is WRONG. What next–sell our air?

  • Julia Valenti-citizen

    Privatization of water? Leasing water? It is a NATURAL RESOURCE that belongs freely to all. What next—sell the air we breathe? This is criminal and WRONG. It is absolutely mindboggling that governments around the world continue to pander to big business and make policies that continue to harm the envirnment and ultimately our very lives. This is the only planet we have, folks, and the road we are headed down with the kinds of governance we have is truly scary. I weep for my grandchildren and the kind of world they are inheriting.

    • LWSEditor

      Thank you commenting, Julia. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Lori Hess

    OUr water must remain a well protected and respected resource for all British Columbians first.
    The rights to it should not be leased or sold under any circumstances.
    I agree with w. Mccomber that it needs to be managed a lot more competently that what we have seen with our forests and fishery.

  • Jennifer Day

    I do not agree with the privatization of water resources, or leasing of water rights. Water should always be publicly owned. If it is not, then the public will have no control over water quality, or even if they have access to water at all (at a reasonable cost).

    If the government goes throught with this then they will be doing irriversable harm to the province and its people.

    • LWSEditor

      Thank you for taking the time to comment, Jennifer. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Cameron Dombroski

    I do not agree with the privatization of one of BC’s, and the worlds greatest re-sources. It is very clear that few people will benefit from this proposal except the people who are already benefited. Stop this now.

    • LWSEditor

      Cameron, thank you for your comment. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • EcoReality Co-op

    Access to water should be one of the basic human rights. Selling off water rights is wrong. It is the same as companies like Nestle that buy up water and then bottle it and sell it. It should not be for sale! This is one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard of!

    • LWSEditor

      Thank you for taking the time to comment, Carol. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Dorothy goresky

    B.C.’s water MUST be protected for all the people of B.C. NOT given away to any country, corporation . Action MUST be taken now by our government to protect our water.

  • rosemary

    What ever happened to governance that protected the constituents interests? We have truly lost our way to an extent that even George Orwell didn’t imagine if this Water Sustainability Act is passed.

    If Governments do not balance the needs of the people with the need for a solid economic structure for private corporations in Canada what difference is there between our country and a dictatorship?

    The wealth of a few supercedes the needs of the people? I certainly hope not!!

    I also hope that Governments are taking heed of the people’s growing awareness of the corruption of this Provincial Government. BC Hydro, BC Rail, Run of Rivers, Enbridge – What has not surfaced yet? The list grows as people learn more…

    We have paid for our infrastructure and continue to pay – now we get to pay again for something we owned already and were willing to continue to pay to maintain but corruption intervenes to allow corporate interest to take precedence over the people’s interests so we can pay more and more more. What choice do we have and what can be done to stop the thievery?

    I believe we will see this at the federal level shortly after the next federal election when the Chalk River site is sold to corporate interests. Business does not always do it better folks – we just get to pay more..

  • Lori Goldman

    I am very concerned about this Water Act Modernization. There is a strong need for good governance of our precious resource. If the government enacts this proposal it will privatize water in a way that becomes effectively irreversible.
    Corporations will benefit and citizens will not.
    Water is a resource that we cannot put in the hands of big business. It must be kept in trust for future generations and managed carefully for them by a caring, diligent government.

  • w. mccomber

    This sounds a lot like what happened to our forestry, the companies were given free rein now it is easier to count the sawmills still running rather than the ones that closed while truck loads of the best logs are shipped out of the country, I hope this kind of thing never happens with our water.

    • Beverley McKeen

      Totally true, you should see how many raw logs come out of Lake Cowichan on Vancouver Island every day; jobs just leaving the community one after the other.

      Water is being treated no differently, as if it should be bought and sold.

  • Bette Chadwick

    I am also writing in opposition to the proposed Water Sustainability Act. I am adamantly opposed to private ownership or leasing of water rights. Water is a human right and will not always be the abundant resource that it is today. That is why water must be kept in public hands for the people of this province. The government is already leasing access to water in rivers in this province for river and lake diversion independent hydro
    projects and is also considering leases for private water bottling companies. In the interest of present and future generations, let’s keep our water in the hands of the people.

    • Beverley McKeen

      The profits to be made by people who don’t even live here, don’t understand how sacred water must remain in the public trust are trying to commit crimes against the common good. Thanks for your comments.

    • LWSEditor

      Thank you for your comment, Bette. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • John Waddington

    I am writing in opposition to the proposed Water Sustainability Act. The water belongs to the people, the government of the day should not dictate to he people how this public resource is managed.Do not allow this most precious public asset into private hands. The people of the province have already lost to many public assets to the privateers.

    • LWSEditor

      John, thank you for commenting. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Pat Psaila

    I totally agree with Paula Steele’s comments and couldn’t have said it better. No one has the right to “own” the water that falls from the skies & collects in our rivers & lakes & oceans. We are very privileged here in BC to have access to abundant clean water. One of the most important jobs of our government should be to manage this wonderful resource well for the benefit of all the creatures, animals, birds, humans, fish, plants that need it. Selling water rights to companies that care only about their own bottom line would be a total disaster.

  • Janet Gray

    If it is truly to be a Water Sustainability Act it should be just that,and not an act that will allow,driven by private market forces, companies and industry to direct the use of, and control of water. Through a scheme such as this we will see – probably before it is even put in place – water bottling companies ‘flooding’ the market.

    I believe in public controlled and managed water and waterways that will be for the benefit of not only the humans, but very importantly of the environment in which we find ourselves living.

    This proposal points BC in a very unfortunate direction and one that I hope we do not go further.

    • LWSEditor

      Janet, thank you for taking the time to comment. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • Esa Kuusisto, Farmer

    All water rights must be under public control.

    IPP’s must not have perpetual control.

    Agriculture must have access to water. With the scarcity in world food stocks, this is an absolute necessity.

    Water rights must not be exported and must be considered as a human right.

  • D. Brent

    The water in and around this province “belongs to the citizens of this province”. No company, corporation, or private citizen shall have control over our waterways, water. The government must never permit this to happen under any circumstance and I expect that that is, and will continue to be the law.

  • Paul Grinder

    I completely agree with the following from Ecojustice.
    “What’s most dangerous about this proposal is that it will privatize water in a way that becomes effectively irreversible. Right now, one gets a “licence” to use water that the Government may alter or revoke without (generally speaking) having to pay compensation. However, once the licence to use a public resource is converted into a tradable economic right, that is held and may be sold, any changes to the system that affect that right will undoubtedly spur lawsuits against the government.
    If this proposal goes forward, you can pretty much write off any chance of ever meaningfully recognizing a human right to water or a public trust over water.”

    • LWSEditor

      Paul, thank you for your comments. We want to be clear – we’re not proposing the privatization of BC’s water. To address your concerns and those of others, we invite you to read our follow up post. Please continue to share your comments and questions.

  • angela bell

    my question is if there was a possibility to change the proposal and replace it with a community based shareholding company ?
    - eg. shares held by each town, village of the province, country and have just one head office to look after it?
    this would enable us to be united in responsibility, gains and losses. It would keep us satisfied as we would fee ‘empowered’ and able to have some input by having a voice!

    coming to think about it, would that not be the kind of organisation fostering Unity among society and satisfaction? Hmmm…perhaps we could call this new share holding company ‘independent Government’ that’s representing the people who elected it…..hmmmm
    Perhaps we should sit back and think, take a bit some more time to think!

  • Kate Maxon, organic gardener

    Right on Erin. Big Gov’t+ Big Business= Big Money….and NOT for the taxpayers of BC….nor for the agricultural sector that produces our food. Oh, lets just put more burden on the small farmer/rancher; help IPPs sell our power to the States (has California ever paid its Hydro bill?)and tax anyone who tries to grow food gardens by installing more and more water meters (sounds like a conspiracy to me!)

  • Kathleen Hadley

    Water is our most precious resource; don’t sell it down the drain

  • justin moose

    stop robbing the future.

  • Paula Steele

    Water is a human and natural right and must not become ‘owned’ by anyone. We must avoid any action that will jeopardize the public ownership of water. We are blessed in BC with a valuable resource. Let’s protect it for the sake of the local natural environment it supports, including the humans that ‘borrow’ it, and keep it clean and well managed for future generations.

    I emphatically agree with the following summations:

    1. Environmental Flows – the proposal that flow prescriptions be downgraded to guidelines should be abandoned. Flow regimes derived from empirical data and defensible by rigorous scientific analysis are essential to protection of fish, other species, and their habitat.

    2. Conversion of a licence to a tradeable economic right – this proposal is flat out wrongheaded, in principle. Today’s practice of issuing revocable licencing rights to water, for a given period of time, is appropriate. Allowing those licence rights to evolve into ownership of the right is unacceptable.

  • JF

    A “water sustainability act” should in-fact be an act to sustain healthy and publicly owned/controlled water ways/resources.

    The idea of turning over the water resources to private control is outrageous. The public should be the ones in control of our water. Fundamental resources such as water should never be given up to private control. The public and environmental interests will not be better served by turning water resources over to private market forces.

    Retaining control of water resources as a public asset is not sufficient in of itself. We must additionally construct strong controls over the water resources so they are managed in a wise and sustainable fashion. Most importantly, we must manage our water in a way that is of positive benefit not only for the public but also equally for the environment that the water ways are a critical part of.

    Please, consider the long term good of the land and people, be a government that keeps BC’s water as a public resource, out of the markets, and out of control from private interests. Make a “water sustainability act” that strengthens the environment and public-good in this province.

    Please.

  • Sandy Slobodian

    I believe that there are individuals that are well versed in these various implications of an Act such as this. Their voice should be given great weight and each one of us citizens should not be expected to research these issues in order to have our voice heard. I trust the people at Council of Canadians, I suggest that they be consulted and that their advise be taken as representative of many others. If it is necessary for them to continue to gather signatures then so-be-it but I think it has become obvious that they are the voice of many.

  • Elizabeth Borek

    Water should not be sold, it is not a commodity.
    Period. If you pass legislation that in any way opens the door to the sale of water, I will never vote Liberal again in my lifetime.

  • Joey MacDonald

    This bill is only modern in the sense that it thinks of only the absolute immediate needs of a few, and doesn’t take any kind of an effective look at the public water needs of 10, 20, 30 years from now. Publicly traded water rights threaten to permanently remove water as a basic human right held in the public trust. The current contingency for reclamation of water rights by the government MUST be upheld. If BC’s water rights – currently held in the public trust by the Government – become freely traded, they will never come back. They would become a traded commodity in private hands and future governments and BC residents will have no legal recourse to reclaim them. Someone else – another company, another country – will be more entitled to the water in our streams than BC residents, BC animals, BC’s First Nation’s, BC’s food production industry, even BC’s crown corporations. The proposed water rights trade system is horribly frightening and must be removed from this modernization. Water must remain a right for residents and tax payers of BC, and this bill threatens that right in very clear terms.

  • Erin Hubert, Human Being

    More of BC’s resources being mismanaged. I have the distinct impression that the BC government it’s tax payers. More Great news for the large corporate interests that currently posses water rights. The privatization of water with the governments blessing to use a public resource and turn that into a tradable economic right, to be bought and sold, is a huge kick in the teeth for the taxpayers of BC. What happened to our human right to water, or public trust over water? I beg the BC government not to pursue this misguided course of action. Stop the madness.

  • Jack Matches

    This is a sweet deal for those who currently hold water rights, including the independent power producers, and sells out ownership of the resource from all of us….not to mention future generations. All the while paying lip service to environmental concerns and downgrading previous strong legal protections of the resource to simply ‘guidelines’. Disgusting.

  • Arthur Caldicott

    I have read the post at Ecojustice entitled “B.C.’s water to be sold to the highest bidder?” (http://tinyurl.com/6e48eld) – and I am extremely concerned about the issues addressed in the blog.

    1. Environmental Flows – the proposal that flow prescriptions be downgraded to guidelines should be abandoned. Flow regimes derived from empirical data and defensible by rigorous scientific analysis are essential to protection of fish, other species, and their habitat.

    2. Conversion of a licence to a tradeable economic right – this proposal is flat out wrongheaded, in principle. Today’s practice of issuing revocable licencing rights to water, for a given period of time, is appropriate. Allowing those licence rights to evolve into ownership of the right is unacceptable.

  • PC_BC

    As part of overall water sustainability, the province should take a leadership position on the use of grey water systems, providing municipalities and regional districts with clear guidelines on applicability for such systems, and incentives for new developments to include systems, or retrofit to add on. Suggest administration of incentives similar to the SolarBC approach to installation of solar hot water systems.
    Grey water recovery has the potential to significantly reduce both drinking water demand as well as sewage treatment infrastructure required.

    • Kate Maxon, organic gardener

      Yes, PC_BC…this is an integral part of “water management” and it would save far more water than all the water meters many of BC municipalities have been “herded” into endearing (basis for grants!) But Oh, dear! WHERE is the money to be made on that? In our small town (Lillooet) the municipal gov’t never even heard of such a thing as a grey water system. On one hand the gov’t(both Prov & Municipal) touts that they can manage OUR water; on the other hand they wish to add further burden to people who want to grow food gardens – by metering – and they point to the scarcity of water. Here in Lillooet 2 beautiful creeks (millions of gallons/day) run right down the hills into the river..but yet the claim was last summer was: No water! We MUST have meters! If this is an example of “managing water” by government…I think they should be doing some other job.